Greenies Ride for Free

well this is not what i expected...i've been a fan of greenies home since it first opened..and my main concern is that i don't want to see it die...i stopped going to blackswan since the manditory covercharge..because 2 minutes is not enough time to let the place rez..and no one has 35,000 lindens to spend on intangible art..my worries are that most ppl in second life have never been here and they won't get to see this magnificent sim because the manditory covercharge will kill their interest..and that's sad..i think back to extinction..i tried forever to get in there and was never able to..through search or any other means..and i only got to see it being destroyed for the first 5 minutes..and then stratos..no one ever went there because it was not advertised and it was an incredible sim..and to see this saddens me because only about 1% of the second life population even knows it exist..
don't get me wrong..i know you need to turn a buck in second life..this place is not cheap to be creative..but is that worth losing the ground that you've gained?..it;s like having the mona lisa and not letting anyone see it without paying to get into paris first..these are only my opinions ..but you have something very special and unique in second life..and i would hate to see it wither on the vine..

I have been coming to Greenies for a long time now and carried it on my profile, as i a a photographer in Second life my work also carried a lot of shots of the sim with full details of the sim. No more, i have now pulled ALL work bar one on flicker and koinup a picture of the sign saying we must pay. You cannot DEMAND payment from SL users to see something they may or may not like. This is unfair and the attidtude of take it or leave it from the "helper" at the entrance is terrible. I used to run a club that cost a fortune to set up and run and never once thought this type of move would of been a good one. Within ten minutes of me waiting so support the DJ that was on i saw at least 5 people come onto the sim read the sig and port out. This is not good for you surely? Greenies used to be somewhere i was proud to work in and promote within my art, no longer. I will say the ring is NOT a lifetime pass it is timed you need to advise your staff of this as they are saying its a lifetime pass. I for one will not be back and i can only support the DJ's comments above 100%.

I understand the need to support Greenies. However, I think Greenies will lose new visitors since they can't get in without paying for something they've never even seen before. I think something should be done for first time visitors, at least.

Greenies Ghost Town.... what next duel in the sun? Today was the most terrible day I can remember at Greenies - worse than griefers, crashes, and lag combined. I tried to be "UP" and like Desiree I will pay for many people to enter, just to keep the sim alive. This was THE WORST DECISION THAT REZZABLE HAS MADE and that says a lot. We lost one of the best DJs, countless fans and members, respect, lindens, hope, morale... and that was just the FIRST DAY! Some of the my gripes (from a non-griper): *The layout of the entrance is awful. Many visitors do not understand the scary green iris at the end of the corridor. *The advertisements are misleading, and in the blog is states "Membership does not expire" yet the ring says it is good for 8640 minutes (144 hours). *The rings are not transferable so we cannot give them to friends. *Word is out that Rezzable is not noob friendly. *The security scripts are so laggy I CRASHED 6 TIMES! It feels like a policedrone will arrest me at any moment! *Executive staff cannot tp in to deal with emergencies quickly or will be thrown off the sim. *Guests cannot be tp'd to parties or events directly but must be vetted. I see no good coming from this, except possibly I finally see the writing on the wall and abandon my future with Rezzable.

Well why am I not suprised by this turn of events. Sadly I have been watching Rezzable slowly mess up a wonderful idea. Greenies was great when it started I used to come along on the Mondays for the big party in the mothership, The Atmosphere was great and the Sim was always well visited. Then sadly the Rezzable people over extended them selves opening sims left right and centre, and the conflicts with the sims began. Events being run at the same time, numbers dropping off. The event of charging to get into sims saddens me, I will not be visiting Greenies any more or any of the other Rezzable sims you have to pay to enter. I have friends who still work for Rezzable who are very unhappy with the situation as it is now. Rezzable you need to take a long hard look at your business practices, close down the non profitable sims and concentrate on bringing Greenies back to what it was. But sadly I feel that this will be like bolting the stable door and the horse has long gone

Yes I find this ...stupid. I take my friends to Rezzable sims when we are bored and want to have fun for FREE, but now that they will have to pay I'm sure that all my friends will refuse to. I love the sims and I know alot of other do but theres a large amout of people that will not pay to visit a sim when they can go and exsplore on alot of other free sims that are just as intresting/beautiful. RIP Rezzable.

I still can't enter the site ???

It's not that $99L is a lot of money... by most people's definitions it's negligible. The problem is primarily with the concept of having to pay to gain entry. While that might be feasible in the real world, you have to consider your constituency when implementing a new business policy--in this case, Second Life residents. Did you look at the success that other sims have had with mandatory entrance fees? The reaction of staff, regulars, and newcomers to sims like that? Even comparing an entrance fee to Black Swan to one at Greenies is unwise. Black Swan is best described as an art exhibit. Greenies--while exceptional--is better described as a playground. People *might* consider the notion of paying a small fee to see someplace like Black Swan if it has the reputation of being an art exhibit (and even then, it still needs to have the reputation of being REALLY something exceptional)... but a playground? If, when I had first come to Greenies, there had been a mandatory entrance fee... I wouldn't have wasted my time. My reaction would've been one of "pffft, nuts to this" and I would've teleported elsewhere without a second thought, or a second visit. This is what you're basically dooming Greenies to, where newcomers are concerned--to say nothing of poor newbies without a dime to their name in the first place. Greenies had my support (my presence, my patronization, and my repeated recommendation to others) because it was so much fun to explore and because of the people there. A required entrance fee is going to deter staff, regulars, and newcomers alike, and is likely going to negatively impact the revenue Greenies sees. The fact that pretty much all of the comments here thus far have been from regulars and from staff should illustrate that. As for me... I'm very worried about what future now faces my favorite sim.

ok Greenies needs funding fair enough. But I totally agree with Ravin. I already own a greenie AV, but I'm never coming back with this going on. I think it's incredibly sad state of affairs and the hard work gone into the build will be waisted. The club aspect certainly isn't worth the $l's with host's only coming out of IM's or AFK to shout announcements about buying things or tip begging / and DJ's that can't even beat match the tunes there playing (this only relates to DJ's and host that I have witnessed / not all). I really enjoyed showing new people to greenies its a fantastic build as are most rezzable place's but some alternate service for funding is really needed. relaying on shop sales should be enough personally I've bought the dueling guns the UFO the AV ... what more can I buy ?? My point is theres not enough for sale. Also how about advertising space ? would that help in funding ? probably not but anythings better than an entrance fee. The only reason I'm able to buy things like this and also tip DJ's & staff is because I have an SL job that is fairly well payed. If I had to get it though camping like some of SL poor residents I would never even think about it. So my opinion is even $1'linden entrance fee is too much to ask. Also this augment about what $l relates too in real world money is absolute hogwash, can you buy things like cars for for what you can in SL ? The economy is totally different as the pure act of not requiring resource's to build things makes it incomparable across the board / as I stated I have a well payed job in SL .. that actually means I'm working for 1/5 th of minimum wage in the real world.

I have been bringing Newbies to Greenies to inspire them ever since I found out about it. Yesterday when I brought one, I discovered that there was a fee to exit the store!!!! If the fact that Newbies don't have any money has escaped the marketing genius behind this latest extortion.. you need to get a clue! So, I bought a ring so I could get past the damn toll gate and I bought one for the Newbie whom I didn't even know beyond 20 minutes. While we were there, another avatar was hanging around and as soon as my newbie rezzed the box, the other avatar grabbed the contents, said thank you and left. Still another Avatar was trying to sell me a custom tattoo for $L100 so she get buy a ring and get past the gate. She was very persistent. Thank you all very much for ruining one of the best locations in SL. I will not be bringing anyone back here.

Sad Day. I have been to greenies from the first day I discovered second life, I loved this place. There were always kind and nice people there. Everyone was happy in this sim. I liked to find newbies there and to make them discover this wonderfull place. They were talking about the sim to the friends they met, etc... With the new system, newbies won't come here, nice people won't come too. It will be always empty and worthless. I know this place is not free for you but people in SL are not ready to pay to visit places, there are so many free sim that yours will disapear. It is really the WORST thing your did. I hope that one day you will open your mind and see your mistake...but maybe it will be too late. d RIP rezzable greenies

 Content consumers need content creators--is a pretty obvious point. SL is getting increasingly complicated, so to make stuff takes more and more effort to achieve a high quality result. I think the only way not just one person, but a team of people from builders to scripters to designers and of course the promotions team, can justify the effort is by having a pay-to-visit scheme in place.  We have not seen significant, steady use of tips (although we are adding them at Tunnel of LIght and Carnival of Doom  now--so pls feel free to share your generosity there, there is even a new ride opening soon Eat the Worm). Merchandise for quirky things like the Greenies doesn't sell as much as skins or other typical SL items. Rezzable is not going to flip the Greenies into yet another mall, although we do think the new arrival point in the 

People do pay for quality. People do pay for movies, dvd rentals, diet coke etc. In the online space we know that people pay massively more for Wow, Eve and blockbusters like GTA. So, what really is the pushback on paying for content in SL? Are SL residents spoiled from the creative wave that hit the grid in 2007? Too jaded to support areas that they admit they like and have been to? It's like asking houseguests to pay for the bread after they have been guests for a year and now we get some lecture about community spirit. I got an IM from a person who said asking for payment was a sign of greed. This is pretty naive really. I don't see how it is a sensible comment--we don't sell porno, we don't make money on land speculation, we don't tolerate hate or violence.  Greenies is a place of wonder and amazement in the virtual world. It is perhaps one of the greatest things ever rezzed. And now we even have another entire sim--the Greenies Lawn to explore. 99L is not much for hours of entertainment. 99L although a small number would be a gigantic validation of our efforts if 400,000 paid it.

So what really is the big picture on pay-to-visit? It is about designing the next wave of virtual world experiences that people will find valuable enough for which to pay.  We really appreciate the fact that so many people love Greenies and feel so attached to them. It would be also interesting to hear about what would make the Greenies experience better. What can we do to make the 99L unlimited, avatar life-time fee even more worthwhile?

 

 

There's a lot of reasons for the push-back on the idea of pay-to-play, as well as in response to the way it was implemented.

It seems as though this decision was implemented without running it past the staff first, at least, to say nothing of Greenies' patrons.  Your staff put in a lot of time, effort, heart, and soul into making Greenies what it is; this is the reason why Greenies stands out.  The premise of being in a big sim and being the size of a mouse is novel, but that alone isn't what keeps people coming.  It's the people at Greenies... the staff, and the visitors.  Greenies attracts all kinds of interesting people and is a great place to make some truly remarkable friends.  The staff work hard to keep upping the bar, hosting fun events, adding new and interesting content, having contests/parties/scavenger hunts/games/etc.  The staff who spend all of that time and effort to keep Greenies top-notch deserve, at least, to have some say and influence into how best see Greenies succeed as a top SL destination AND as a business.  Not including your staff in the decision-making process and implementing changes without running it by them--and without acknowledgement to the consequences--is simply not a wise thing to do as a manager, even if you are well within your right to do so as the owner of said business.

That being said, I fully agree that high-quality content should be supported in Second Life, as well as in real life.  That's why I openly support and patronize my favorite businesses, locations, builders, musicians, and DJ's, as much as I'm able.  I can easily afford $99L and I purchased the ring as soon as I saw the change had been implemented (I have a couple Greenies avatars and was prompted to update the HUD, but wearing the HUD doesn't seem to be a reliable means of gaining entry).  However--and I've mentioned this before--Second Life's user base is not accustomed to being required to pay for entry.  That, and many people simply can't afford even that much... newbies, people who do not have SL jobs, and people who refuse to buy Lindens out of principle or personal preference.  That's a very large constituency you're blocking out.

I agree with many of your statements about what Greenies is and its value as an SL treasure.  There's no denying that that's precisely what it is.  I also agree that people have a responsibilty to try to support that which they enjoy--and that many people who should, don't.  It's great to have a place free of the overt adult content that permeates Second Life and gives it the bad rep it has (there's nothing necessarily wrong with adult content, but it's nice to be able to go places away from that, you know?)  People should do more to support places like Greenies if they want to see it continue to exist, much less see new and interesting content.  I don't think most sensible people with disagree with that... but most people WILL tell you that there are probably better ways to get that support.  The fact is that Second Life's users want to have their cake, and eat it too... they want to continue to be able to enjoy Greenies, but have the option to support it (or not), and within their means.  This might be unpleasant if you have bills to pay, but it means that you might have to come up with other ideas to get people to support Greenies.  My overall suggestion?  Consult your staff and include them in the decision-making process.  Keep them in the loop.  Examine what works and what doesn't work in terms of successes with activities and products and events in the Greenies sim, based on what the customers seem to go for.  Take suggestions--and constructive criticisms--to heart.  See what other businesses in Second Life are doing, see how/where/why they've had successes or failures, and find ways to incorporate or re-interpret the successes of others into ways that could work for Greenies.

Will I continue to visit Greenies?  Absolutely.  I still love the sim even if I don't agree with the recent change.  I have not spent as much time there in the last few days as I usually do, however, simply because nothing's going on and hardly anyone's around.  That will likely continue to be the case until the restriction is lifted or SL residents warm to the idea of paying an entry fee... and that doesn't appear likely anytime soon.  Yes, you'll have some people paying the fee, maybe even buying a few things in the store... but neither of the Greenies sims are going to see the amount of visitors they used to see as long as the mandatory entry fee remains in effect.  As beautiful and as extraordinary as the two sims are... who wants to stand around in an empty playground when there's no one to share it with?

Happy to help.   :)

I just want to see Greenies succeed and be around for a really long time... and see lots of people enjoy it as much as I have.  That's all!

hi, this thing will kill this place it was so popular place for everybody

i feel very bad about greenies it a ghost town

Good idea on the access policy, keeps the wrong kind of people out!

I'm disappointed with this new way of accessing Greenies - the old way of getting there via an underfloor route was way cooler - this is very ordinary indeed, and not cool at all

The underground tunnel/mousehole (the old TP point) doesn't really serve a purpose now that it's not the main entrance... well, not the tunnel anyway.  The mousehole is basically just the connecting point between the lawn and the house--and not everyone knows about it, either.  I showed a group of newcomers to the mousehole yesterday because they weren't sure how to get to the sim next door without TP'ing... or being lazy and flying over the wall like I usually do.  One possible solution might be to put one of those little teleporter bubble things you have scattered around the sim and put it in the store, and have it set to TP to the Lawn's sandcastle--and have one like it at the sandcastle to TP back to the Home's store.

Personally, I like the idea of the tunnel/mousehole entrance, like in the old days (LOL... old days... the sim's like, what, a year old?)  I remember being a newcomer and TP'ing into the mousehole, not sure of where I was, but following the arrows... and encountering that overwhelming sense of wonder--that "WOAH!" moment--upon exiting the mousehole and walking around/through the dollhouse to see the huge sim before me.  It really does leave quite an impression, and a good first impression is always favorable whether in SL or RL, right?

There are other reasons to use the tunnel again as the main entrance and TP point: new visitors 1) have the choice of turning left or right for the house/lawn, 2) know the first time how/where to cross the sims without having to hunt for the crossing point, and 3) saves you the trouble of having to add or change another crossing point.  If you still wanted to keep the banlines in place along with the entrance fee (which, by the way, I still don't like the idea of), you could make it so that the area immediately around the dollhouse in the Home sim and around the garden hose in the Lawn sim were open access, to provide a little preview of what the two sims look like and still keeping that "first-time-WOW" impression.

Following that idea, you could also alter the access banlines so that newcomers had access to follow along the wall from the dollhouse, under the FNORD table to another mousehole at the base of the cabinet where the shop is... which would mean they could access the shop without having to use a TP device, get to preview the sim a little, and save you the trouble of drastically changing the shop's layout--and providing them free access to the store so that they can, you know, buy stuff.  If you did that, you could put some more of those little green arrows on the floor for people to follow, like in the tunnel, or maybe signs or something telling folks the shop is "this way".  You could also extend the tunnel going in the opposite direction so that it can connect to the sandcastle in some way, providing walkable access to both stores.

Anyhoo... just some ideas of mine.  I think overall a lot of this would be easier if another income solution were found to negate the need for an entry fee... but entry fee or no, I would love to see the mousehole/tunnel used again as an entry point, and I think there's quite a few ways you could implement using it again while giving people access to the sims' two shops, give folks a preview of both sims, and preserve that "ooh and ahh" moment of stepping out of the tunnel into two sims full of Greenies goodness.

Deleted double entry as guest book said it failed!

 

@Ravin, interesting idea on sim design, although not that easy to implement with current parcelling settings. But it all does make sense. We'll take it to the Greenies Round Table of Big Dicisions.! ;)

Tori, as you say it's one of your favourite places, I would asume you would not mind spending a few L$ on it. As you do mind, 'favourite' probably does not mean much?

@Rebbecca: done, in response to your email.

I'm very upset by your access policy. The price is reasonable but I disagree with the principle. SL should be about free access and info for all.

 I had my first experience of even knowing that Greenies was a pay as you enter thing, just yesterday. First, because I've been there many times, I was extremely disappointed in not landing in the tunnel. It sets the "entire" tone of one's visit. I don't think you could duplicate such creativeness otherwise.

 
I'm no sl business expert, but a certain common sense jumps out at me. Furthermore, as I stood at the ban line, outside the store, my first reaction...was...what the **? I did a quick map look and only ONE person was in the house. I thought something very serious had happened. So, I IM'ed one of the Rezzable groups about this. This is when I found out about the entry fee; I had NO qualms in considering its purchase. I mostly was in shock at the radical change upon entry, and the "ghost town" feel. Having not seen that I needed to pay a fee upon landing, I suppose I wasn't paying close enough attention to this possibility. I had a single reason to be there that day and may have been too focused on it.
 
Anyway, failing a lack of a business model from the planning stages, before it opened, might have been the first error. BUT, the NOT being in your face to buy something made that 'first impression' that was a pleasantly lasting. I know there are many creators/sim owners that have spent a lot of rl hard earned money just to share, not just quality creations, but a piece of a their heart, that probably would never be shared if it were not for SL. The apparent successful part of the previous business model, e.g.; superior quality creations and an obvious level of imagination that reaches the early days of Walt Disney. Since that is NOT the issue, you have at the starting gate an immediately popular place to go. What more could one ask for when one might have just opened? Some successful practices I have seen, and someone mentioned this, above, is tipping locations. Now, a business, when faced with a hard budget, cannot rely on that as a consistent form of income. So, what's left; your products.
 
Looking at Black Swan:
 
It was/is THE place to go in SL, face it. So is Greenies and it was first. I can remember one day showing someone Greenies, this was like last Oct..or something. I walked into the Doll house, and I was in awe at the quality creations that were for sale. These creations even fit in with the doll house theme. I literally bought almost every piece that was for sale. Which, wasn’t cheap. But, I knew from past experience with Rezzable sims, that it might be here today, tomorrow, who knows? So, perhaps maybe bringing those items back to the doll house would help. Your stuff is an experience and inside that experience is where I buy. Furthermore, I don’t know whose idea it was to 'pull' the store from the skybox and make it in your face totally destroys that first impression, the wow factor, that alone is a huge mistake. Why not dig a mouse hole in the tunnel, make a store there, put mouse products in it, or the greenies stuff that is out and around the main area. There are so, many things I would buy, if I just knew I could. Better still, make the stuff for sale where and as they sit. This was one of the major pluses you had going for you, even the press saw it, at the time, and sl business consultants remarked on how the low key imaginative nature of presenting a brand was so astoundingly positive. The problem is I couldn’t buy 'it', this came later, in some minor cases.
 
I am sympathetic to this plight, or dillemma that the Rezzables are facing, and to the visitors/staff . I'm compelled to write what might be long winded...but. If I didn't care I wouldn't post anything. Obviously, a lot of people do care, which is a huge sign worth noting. That being said, from my research, on what does work in sl, you had that and are quickly losing it. Go back to your roots, start from there, walk through what visitors see, place things in locations that support your needs, yet don’t take away from experience of your visitors.
 
Another breakdown:
From my personal buying experience, I have had at least 3 very poor responses to issues with your products. It has slowed my decisions with buying in the future. Yet, I continue to see you roll out great products, and to not support who created them would be a shame. BUT, and I have said this before, you are harming their reputations by this continued very poor customer service. Now, granted, I have seen you RaR, express concern over this, and express back a perfect willingness to resolve the issue. But, you cannot be everything to everyone, all the time. This really has to be your main focus, and the profits will follow. You really may want to consider, very seriously "The Long Tail", rather than what's his name, Peters? I don’t mean to come off harsh, but in desparate times (with all this protesting going on, etc.) desparate measures are required for your sustained existence.

Another idea is. Why not provide a place at each of your sims that can tp anyone to any of your stores that have the products that they wished they bought before, or that maybe wasn’t for sale and now is. Perhaps even provide a Rezzable mall that carries your full line in one location as a convienent alternative to trying to track it down? Just the other day I was looking for those black jeans, that were posted in the blog; it took me about an hour to find, as the SLURL links on that post were all bad. Ok, the idea of some Rezzable Megga mall might be abhoring…or contrary to your philosophy, but it is worth considering, in light of the need. What will it hurt? Why not make Black Swan a destination point that egages people to return regularly. Turn it into a community like you have tried to do elsewhere? The community will support you in the long run. You will always have those that come and go and not buy anything. But, if you create a place where its primary focus is to buy something, then forget about the destination stickyness. I think you see that Im being facitious here, but am trying to make a point.
 
[I know I can say more and I have more ideas too. But, I'm putting my money (art) where my mouth is. I have created a Special Edition Sculpted Reliefs, rezzed at the Imagine sim, and I'm starting a "Keep Access to Greenies Free Fund". All those interested please go there, and see the notecard in the Greenies sign I placed there, with my art.]  Thanks...and looking forward to your support.

I have a greenies avi but can't access - Guru Ah

There is a prompt which pops up, it is part of the automatic updating system. It only activates once per hour, though. If you rez the HUD and it delivers a replacement and then you rez the old HUD again, it will not then send you another update; it assumes that you have a good reason to still be using the old version (and being just a script, it may not be right to assume that!)